... and spoil the child.
Sep. 24th, 2015 08:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kaberett(CN abuse.)
azurelunatic, elsewhere, a while ago:
So since then I've been trying to catch myself when I tell a partner they're spoiling me, because what I'm actually doing with that, I think, in addition to the you shouldn't (because I don't deserve nice things; because I shouldn't get used to them; because they'll end up resenting me for it or holding it over me; and on, and on...) is -- distancing myself from it, reframing it as something I understand, as something that is not a gift freely given for the sake of maybe making me smile, but a calculated transaction to keep me quiet and buy my time and my energy and my compliance. I'm trying to turn it into something that makes more sense to me; what I mean is you don't mean this.
And that's not fair to my partners, and it's not fair to me, so I'm trying, ever so gently, to retrain myself on this one.
azurelunatic, elsewhere, a while ago: When people say "spoiled child" I look for not enough love, not too much. It seems to me that often people who could be described as a "spoiled child" come from backgrounds where a child is "cared for" by starving them of attention, affection, and approval, but they do have all their apparent physical needs met, and are given expensive things instead of giving them the positive human contact they need. It's a really insidious form of neglect. [...] When the expensive thing is exactly the way the child would like it, it's a sign that the parent is paying attention to the child's hopes and preferences. When the thing is not exactly right (since the parent is perceived to be infallible in making material things happen), it is a sign of inattention/disapproval and is a horrible catastrophic sign of a degradation in the relationship.
So since then I've been trying to catch myself when I tell a partner they're spoiling me, because what I'm actually doing with that, I think, in addition to the you shouldn't (because I don't deserve nice things; because I shouldn't get used to them; because they'll end up resenting me for it or holding it over me; and on, and on...) is -- distancing myself from it, reframing it as something I understand, as something that is not a gift freely given for the sake of maybe making me smile, but a calculated transaction to keep me quiet and buy my time and my energy and my compliance. I'm trying to turn it into something that makes more sense to me; what I mean is you don't mean this.
And that's not fair to my partners, and it's not fair to me, so I'm trying, ever so gently, to retrain myself on this one.
Re: . . . BABBLE ALERT? Ahem.
Date: 2015-09-25 12:11 am (UTC)a partner "digging his heels in"
you talking about being "allowed" things
you being required(?) to make a choice about which thing you want, when you might not really want any of them, in the middle of a shop,
financial inequality in the relationship
Forcing(?) you to make a choice about something you might/might not want, in a public space, so that someone with many more financial resources can 'treat' you to something doesn't sound to me like a pleasant way to interact with them. The risk I see here is of this pattern of interaction becoming financially/emotionally abusive. ie. You're the one "allowed" "nice things". He's being ever so kind by giving you the "nice things", so you should be grateful for them. He's working ever so hard to earn money to buy you this stuff.
The other side to it being OK for you to have things you consider nice, is that you don't have to accept gifts you don't want, whatever the apparent motivation of the gift giver.
Forcing things on you, rather than leaving you free to choose seems to undermine the concept you're talking about in other comments/the original post about gifts from most people not being attempts to manipulate/avoid emotional closeness etc. If it's not really a choice to refuse to accept or gift giving has become something that's happening without being negotiated as something you both want, then there's still strings attached to it, just different ones.
And wanting some degree of financial equality, rather than one sided gift giving is perfectly reasonable.
Re: . . . BABBLE ALERT? Ahem.
Date: 2015-09-25 10:42 am (UTC)In fact in this instance (1) we've talked about financial inequality and how to handle it and that's all actually negotiated and fine, it just... still sometimes manages to set some of my stuff off a little, in a way that it is absolutely fine for me to deal with and get a handle on myself; and (2) I do always actually want the thing and opinions on what I want, it's just that I'm so used to working in a scarcity model that I go a little wrong about the idea that, perhaps, I am not.
And the other thing is, if I were actually willing to say "no, I don't want this" to him, he'd drop it instantly - but I don't say that, ever, I just try to give him clearly-spurious reasons why he shouldn't and why I don't deserve it, and I'm pretty much cool with his refusal to buy into that bullshit. I've always got a choice; he's just making sure I know I've got space to choose based on the present not the past.
Re: . . . BABBLE ALERT? Ahem.
Date: 2015-09-25 04:40 pm (UTC)