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Okay, for future reference, even if I say I don't want warnings, I am lying if the thing you want to warn me about is SURPRISE TRANSPHOBIA BEFORE PAGE TEN. Especially when for bonus lulz it is PLOT-IRRELEVANT TRANSPHOBIA.
Wow. WOW.
Wow. WOW.
Hello,
you all seem like proper awesome types, so I'm hoping that by e-mailing this address the concrit can get passed on to the appropriate people! :-)
Background: I'm a trans* person and my university's trans* rep; I recently bought the eARC of Captain Vorpatril's Alliance.
I've previously really adored the Vorkosiverse in part because of how well it handles queer, trans*, disabled etc characters (I'm all of the above!), how accurate the science is, and so on - I'm a scientist & I am always overjoyed to get to read hard SF that doesn't act like I'm, well, an alien in the bad sense.
So I was very, VERY shocked to find some egregious (and apparently plot-irrelevant!) transphobia within the first ten pages of CVA. The passage I'm concerned about is:"I am fairly certain she's a real girl, Ivan."
"You think? With you, one never knows." He eyed By dryly, and By had the grace to squirm just a bit, in acknowledgement of his cousin Dono nee Donna of lamented memory. Donna, that is. Count Dono Vorrutyer was all too vivid a presence, on the Vorbarr Sultana political scene.
There's a number of problems with this:
(1) By's line, taken in isolation, suggests that trans women aren't "real" women.
(2) Ivan's line slightly salvages this - by acknowledging that trans men aren't women. HOWEVER:
(3) "nee" is the feminine. Using "nee" to discuss a trans man is incredibly undermining. I appreciate that a lot of the time people don't bother preserving the distinction - but I tripped HARD over it here, given the preceding lines. In this context, that distinction is important.
(4) Dono is being "outed" in a way that is (so far) plot-irrelevant - and is lampshaded in the very next line as irrelevant! That is, attention is being drawn to Dono's trans status for no obvious reason other than to treat him as a joke while the "real men" talk. I don't see any way that this is justifiable, and it made my skin crawl.
(5) There is no POSSIBLE way in which By is responsible for his cousin's transition. Implying that he is, again for the sake of a bad "joke", is really, really gross - and treats Dono's transition as a bad thing.
Basically, there's an awful lot wrong with those six lines and it's massively soured my appreciation for a book I was so excited about that I spent $15 on the eARC (I don't currently have any source of income, and bought it as a treat for myself after a really rough week). I've reached out to my friends to ask if there's anything similar in the rest of the book, because I can't continue reading knowing that I might be surprised like that again.
You're all great; you've historically been fabulous at this sort of thing; I would be eternally grateful if you fixed this before the final manuscript goes to print, and if you let me know what action you were planning to take.
Yours sincerely,
-alex.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 10:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 10:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 10:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 10:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 10:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 10:47 am (UTC)I've reached out to my friends to ask if there's anything similar in the rest of the book, because I can't continue reading knowing that I might be surprised like that again.
There's pronoun fail for Dono later in CVA.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 11:01 am (UTC)Right. I guess it's time to see if Baen has any mechanism for making returns, and then NEVER READ ANYTHING THAT ISN'T A DEEPER SEASON-VERSE EVER AGAIN.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 11:10 am (UTC)Sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't recall off-hand if "it" gets used in CVA. I was referring to past books as what the authorial voice has done.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-04 11:13 pm (UTC)Unfortunately, that is typically conservative-Barrayaran, so whether it gets changed completely is something I'm unsure about, but you might get an authorial note by way of sort-of-disclaimer of her believing that, because it's certainly not her personal view on the subject... Or if you ARE lucky, she may change Ivan's response to reflect that, as Ivan is meant to be a sympathetic character.
I understand your backtracking, though, and I'm sorry it happened. Not, I mean, that you felt you had to backtrack, but that this happened to make you feel that way. If you see what I mean. I'm not very good with words.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-05 01:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-05 01:32 am (UTC)I can't shake the feeling that it's authorial voice, given the 'it' thing. There are a few folks out there who genuinely prefer 'it' as a pronoun, but it's still...so very loaded, I wonder.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-05 03:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-05 03:53 am (UTC)Yeah, this. :-/
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-05 01:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-05 01:19 pm (UTC)I mean, some of the people reading this journal (HI TO Y'ALL) have "it" as their (pl) preferred pronoun: but I am dubious that it would end up the default PP for an entire group. I do think that she fixed it as gracefully as was possible, with the later explicit discussion of preferred pronouns, but it was non-ideal.
And... my willingness to extend her the benefit of the doubt on this is eroding fast*. Which is a very, very great pity.
Ugh. Oh LMB no :-(
* which brings me to: nice username! I am a geologist and easily pleased. :D
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-06 02:53 am (UTC)Yes, pretty much my feelings. And I have one friend who pretty much threw the book across the room for that reason and never came back, and I cannot blame him, you know? I think Bujold's handling of queer and nonbinary characters is the weakest point in her books, and I'm at the point where I'm reading the books so I can continue enjoying the far more queer-friendly fanfiction.
Also, woo, geology! It was my undergrad major, but I have since ended up going slightly different directions.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-09-06 01:24 am (UTC)(And Dono, of course, transitioned for entirely political reasons. One wonders if he suffers now from gender dysphoria.)